Ohohoho see how monstrous he looks? Because humans are the real monsters, get it? Because they judge on appearances? Ohohohoho.

>>1336
You know, I honestly didn't pick up on that irony at all. And I think it's actually veering away from that "humans are the real monsters" it started out as (though I didn't think it started out that way at all, ask me later) Since it was Min-Max who started the fight by defending the Yuan-Ti. It also has shown that monsters can be monsters as well. The moral seems to be going in the direction of "Everyone is capable of great things" and "Good and Evil depend greatly on perspective"

>>1340
>"Everyone is capable of great things" and "Good and Evil depend greatly on perspective"

you speak as if thats a bad thing? or... that its a bad thing that its going in that direction?

i think its nice - plus, Char-Face really needed to get pwned something fierce

>>1356
Never said it was a bad thing, It's just that that's what seems to have been the message.

>>1357

i think the message is, at least partially, that you need to see all sides of an issue

why do goblins make war camps? so adventurers that want to murder them stay away from their women and children...

and so on

Except at the same time, the original warcamps of their clan was located where the clan viper clans were, which indeed attacked traders, nearby cities. So the humans havn't really thought much of seeing if they change.d

Another theme was breaking the 1st and 2nd edition traditions. level 1 adventurers fight goblins because that's what level 1 adventures are about. Fighting goblins, opening the treasure chest and taking the +1 sword inside. Nothing much to it.

It started out just as a perspective flip on that.

>>1417
Good catch. I noticed the way it's played is that THAC0 is the last of a dying breed, replaced by a newer generation of both goblin and human. The disabled goblins Kore killed were also part of this 'dying generation.'
And I think he's going to spin it so that Kore is a part of this 'dying generation' as well, as the first and second had less character interaction unless the DM willed it, and were more hackyslashy about experience awards. My prediction is that his death will somehow reflect this, in the same way his dispensing of 'justice' and lack of falling is also a reflection.

On a similar note, anyone still a little peeved that the comic relief guard bought it by Kin of all things? I don't know, felt very unnecessary to me.

>>1425

Lots and lots of people die horribly that probably shouldn't. That's fairly central to Goblins, which seems like half deconstruction of D&D and half D&D played straight with role-reversal. (The 'good' races tend to be evil, and the 'evil' races tend to be good.)

>>1436
>>Lots and lots of people die horribly that probably shouldn't.
Especially Dies Horribly, and soon from the looks of it.

Considering how "dies" is pronounced, couldn't it have been dyes (But mistranslated)? I mean goblins have some retarded names.

I just got done reading the whole thing. I am now a fan.

>>1447
Nah, I bet he'll die in a dramatic moment saving "Saves a Fox" and she'll be all like "NO! Your can fight your destiny! Look" <holds up her fox tail> "I killed my destiny!" and he'll look back and say "But you did save a fox, you kept it with you this whole time" And she'll be all like o.o and then EXPLOSION OF BLOOD!

>>1436
It wasn't that, it was WHO he died to as I pointed out.
Maybe if it were telegraphed more by her wanting to take out her abuse from Dellyn on anybody, I don't know, it just felt weird. He was the kinda guy you would expect to be tossed in with the first wave after he loses the Yuan-Ti and then throw his weapon down and flee in the other direction only to get smashed by an ogre. One of those kinds of moments that jars you out of your reading/viewing frenzy and you go "Well! I certainly wouldn't have done that scene that way..."

Well, that's certainly an understandable reaction...

>>1480

why do i get this feeling to cry out "Sweet justice, at last!"

>>1480

Giant head on tiny neck is giant.

... and sort of wrecking the drama.

(Though I don't know the full story here so there's that too.)

>>1335
I was wondering what an XP whore like Minmax would be doing fighting with a fellow adventurer. Here's the lead-in for anyone just dropping by. Complete win! Also a pretty hilarious fight for one so serious.

>>1487
And the following scene because it's just an awesome reaction.

>>1490

I think you know you've crossed the moral event horizon when other adventurers try to kill you over the way you treat monsters.

Especially a Yuan-Ti, which in non-monster-sympathetic settings are bastard-coated bastards with a side of fangs and wrapped in bastardy scales.

I don't think what he did was wrong, am I an evil person?

>>1494

You don't think capturing a sentient creature and beating it almost to death and raping it every night is wrong?

Because if that's what you mean, then yes, you are evil, and I'll also ban you.

Man, I need to reference what I'm talking about x_x Not the goblinslayer fellow! He's an evil as fuck fellow, but the people killing him that basically just killed an entire goblin tribe just because it was there (Minmaxer) I don't think minmaxer is that evil, just not very bright. (Int is his dump stat)

>>1496

The problem with the Goblins viewpoint of "You need to get to know people and find out if they're evil before you assume they are" is that it's a very modern, first-world viewpoint. It just doesn't work in a world that's not only mid-evil in technology and outlook, but actually contains a fair number of creatures that are literally evil by their very nature. A good portion of the creatures classified as "evil" in D&D nomenclature are literally powered by and/or made of the energies of pure, distilled evil. Saying "But goblins aren't like that!" is not only taking the benefit of being an outside observer and applying it to characters, but ignoring that for the characters, when you're five guys trying to save a village from a horde of armed inhumans, marching up and having a good long chat to determine where they sit on the good-evil scale isn't really feasible.

I mean, even as far as observing from afar goes, remember that you can get multiple weapons, a full set of armor, and a bunch of doodads for the cost of one friggin' telescope, in their world.

Besides, there's a difference between just killing someone and abusing the fuck out of them for your own twisted enjoyment. I don't read the comic, but I'm going to assume that Minmaxer wasn't exactly taking time out to pull apart goblin babies in front of their mothers to laugh at the looks on their faces, right?

>>1498

So..Kin is an evil inhuman monster because she's a yuan-ti (Snake woman)? Which by the very same nature, is an evil, sadistic race that desires the entire destruction of the world itself as their ultimate goal in life? Sorry if I misinterpreted your point, I'm just a bit confused where your going with it.

And yeah, he never tortured goblin babies like that, he was quite willing to curse out and have a long vendetta versus a goblin because it managed to scar his eye though, in a world where regeneration of a limb/eye isn't that hard to gain or do.

A more evil example would be the Paladin Kore, which kills anything that is even remotely connected to an "evil" race, even children. Without losing his status as a paladin..So yeah, kinda confusing.

>>1500
>>So..Kin is an evil inhuman monster because she's a yuan-ti (Snake woman)?

Don't know about Kin in particular. But if your average adventurer came upon her, it's both understandable and really rather reasonable for the adventurer to assume that she is.

This is a viewpoint where it is reasonable to kill her. Not, as MM obviously feels, to abuse her.

>>Sorry if I misinterpreted your point, I'm just a bit confused where your going with it.

Alright. I'll boil it down:

Protesting that not all monsters are inherently evil is not very effective when some monsters are inherently evil.

To elaborate a little: It's easy for modern people to understand that not everyone who looks a certain way is evil. Because we have numerous ways of communicating with them, researching them, observing them, and so on. It's not always flawless but it's more than enough for us to grok the concept.

For people with no long-distance communication, little comprehensive research, and unsafe methods of reconnaissance or discussion with the enemy, it's understandable for them to come to the assumption that "Goblins raid villages all the time, therefore goblins are bad."

>>1501

Very true, infact the main characters of the story come from an area wherein fact, the goblins originally there before they settled were the Trader raiding, city attacking goblins, so it would be generally assumed that such they would be related to that tribe, while goblins might know who belongs to what, an average adventurer, or even an average person might think of them all as generally evil because of the general disposition of the area originally.

It's why things such as Drizzt of the drow comes up a bit more then naught. While some may be different, a good fair continue to make the race look like scum before those that generally wouldn't know, not to mention as its a very small majority, it probably would continue regardless how they were treated.

>>1503
Not to mention those albino goblin assholes who work slaves to death while excavating a rumored artifact that may get their leader's other wing back.

That's the same clan that was invading the traders and all that, the Viper (or vyper) clan.

>>1496
Speaking of stats...when he first gets to the city and comments on the attractiveness of the city's women in terms of cha, but doesn't clarify it just going "Oh nice, a 13, I'd hit dat"
Man, that was hilarious. This guy is like Evil Fighter.

>>1495
This reminds me, that depending on whether or not Erotic is active (judging by Dellyn, yes it fucking is), Minmax is not being as Minmax-y as he could be. In D&D, humans have the ability to breed with almost as much as dragons, with the aid of magic, exactly as much. Therefore, he really ought to be having kids as a true minmax'd character backup. Played the right way, you can sneak this by the DM once or twice depending on how attentive he is.
I currently have a game running with a group and am getting to see such a thing firsthand. This guy raped a goblin chick, slept with a pirate drow chick we used as transport to places the mage couldn't take us, had a castle serving girl as his 'regular,' got 'good raped' by a pair of dryads, and was also comically mated to an owlbear. All six were impregnated. When he died (which required a Rasputin beating that makes Dellyn's looks like a pinprick on a spinning wheel), he selected the one closest to the party and had us engage in a small sidequest that magically aged it up. He showed me the character sheets when the DM went for a pizza run. EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER HAD THE EXACT SAME STATS AS HIS OLD ONE (I wonder how often he gets away with this.)
Also like Minmax he came up with bizarre yet rationally handwaved 'disabilities' in order to snag extra skill sets (generally speaking, they result in mass CHA loss when speaking or being looked over closely, from Tourretes to assburgers-like symptoms to reacting in a frightened manner to certain kinds of stares, or negatively affect INT actions.) They were the only differences between the characters, and were superficial at best since he played the new character exactly like the old one.
So, yes, Minmax is not quite as Minmax-y as he could be if he ran around as 'active' as Kull or other popular 'pulp low fantasy adventure' heroes.
So far his half-dryad druid-which-suspiciously-acts-like-a-warblade has knocked up an ogress, a halfling, and a black dragon, by the way

>>1498

Depends, their dm might be more noticing, afterall the cleric worships him, and has rather seemed to piss him off several times in his prayers.

>>1527
>>(I wonder how often he gets away with this.)
He shouldn't, I wouldn't allow any of this crap to go on. maybe he's sleeping with the DM.

Or maybe he actually thinks it might help improve him, or..just well, bribery is a rare thing in dnd, but it does exist!

>>1535
I have heard of this before, the sneakiness and subtlety of said minmaxer's technique is probably not coming through the post. Either that or the minmaxer is a Big Dude and the DM is a Li'l Dude/TinyChick. Far easier to sneak it in Shadowrun due to the customizability. (reviving someone that far into the campaign, the DM would probably give them a set of karma points to put into the character themself, if he's not good at adding on the fly, the minmaxer will retain his old stats through sleight-of-number, using the same technique of those cash register scammers.)
I don't know if the D&D system lets you pick where to put the points on a pre-gen'd character waiting in the wings, but I imagine the positive-negative feat thing mentioned allows for some customization towards a specific build.

>>1611
>but I imagine the positive-negative feat thing mentioned allows for some customization towards a specific build.

well, in most White Wolf games (exalted, vampire) you can 'gimp' your character for extra bonus points, which can then be spent on boosting other skills

"Blind in one eye - 2 extra points" - that sort of deal.

>>1611
Well, there are flaws that grant you extra feats, but they're a lot more detrimental than "Inability to Rhyme on Purpose" and "Ability to Wink"

>>1616

>Well, there are flaws that grant you extra feats, but they're a lot more detrimental than "Inability to Rhyme on Purpose" and "Ability to Wink"

Flaws still end up very broken because of the power creep and synergy in high-power feats. At least Min-Max isn't an ubercharger...

Well, off of D&D discussions and back on topic, a preview.

If you squint, it looks like minmax finally got himself some armor, but what is it made from? I don't think that I want to know...

Oh, it wasn't armor.

It was his own blood...at least he got a new sword out of it!

Epic lewtz! How much you want to bet though that it breaks the first time he hits something with it because he's not an uber ranger?

oh hey, it's these guys again...

Well...she seems happy to be rid of goblinslayer.

Yay! this means we'll be able to see more of Kin!

In party conflict never ends well...

>>2259
>>2260

... I know I'd probably know better had I been reading this all along, and I know it's cliche, but I kinda hope Minmax and Kin fall for each other.

>>2261
I dont see why not. It makes sense in the "Rescued Princess" tradition.

>>2264

It's weird for me reading this comic where it seems to be trying to "deconstruct" stuff in D&D and other, similar games that as far as I know have been sort of dead horse for awhile now, at least since 3e. 3e still had alignments for races, but they were treated sort of offhandedly, and pretty quickly they were making it very easy to play "enemy monster" races mingling with regular adventurers. For me, who's never really known any D&D other than 3.5, and has been in "weirdo party" games almost exclusively, the idea that it would even be an issue for a monster to join the adventuring party is kind of weird, as is the idea that the whole "Always Chaotic Evil" and "How good are the good guys really" needs subverting, as it's already toyed with all to Hell and back and has become so acknowledged that it's essentially an intrinsic part of 4e's mechanics.

But ah well. Whether there even is a message anymore is essentially pointless, it seems to be its own thing by now.

Monster games are fun, I remember I played a (non D&D) monster game where I played a Formian Lawyer priest of Garagos (I renamed him Gygax for shits and giggles)

Most fun I've ever had being a stick in the mud.

Anyone got that "I'M SO SAAAAAAAAAAD" parody drawing about Goblins?

>>2265

well that is sorta how i see this comic

its not as much a pure deconstruction, but its sort of like social commentary on how silly it is to have some kind of 'default' setting to people. you cant always say that "species A is evil" and "species B is good". this is what its trying to bring across... and i think it does that fairly well

regarding the story itself - well, i think the characters are used well, if not a good deal too haphazardly, to illustrate the above main point of the comic

>>2278

you can ask /tg/ they always post it wendever they do a "Fuck Yeah humans" thread

BEHOLD! The most awkward conversation in the history of webcomics!

>>2278

He was just asking the wrong questions...but I hope this turns out better.

Since Thunt is busy celebrating his court victory we get some background.

I'm really starting to think that the goblins universe really DOES have subjective morality, with the illusion of it being non-subjective.

>>2839

forgive me from asking - but what court victory?

>>2871

Apparently he got his kids away from his crazy ex (now they're living with him and his girlfriend/fiance/whatever), and got out of IRS punishment for child support payments he didn't owe. Or something like that.

>>2874

see now that would be worth celebrating

Oh Klik, you lovable scamp!

http://goblinnews.blogspot.com/2010/07/no-connecticon-for-us.html

Holy crap on a stick!

>>3086

Sounds like whatever got him flagged from getting a passport also got him flagged for extra scrutiny.

>>3088

Customs has been seriously anal about merchandise coming in from outside the country for sale without work visas. If you sell your stuff for one day, you need to have a full work visa, on file, and the convention's on the hook for a load of papers too. It came up at Anthrocon at least once and wreaked havoc.

New Tempts Fate, but I just can not figure out this door...

Well...I did not guess that...

I already figured out this one, don't want to spoil it.

>>3326
This comic is basically an exercise in making every element of the room painfully a painfully obvious part of the solution. For those still confused, here's a hint: The door needs more vertical space to be opened.

>>3326
>>The door cannot be smashed or destroyed in any way.

I take that as a challenge.

Screw the logic puzzle, I'd find a way to smash that fucking door just for being cheap.

I solved the puzzle ;P

Read comic, there's a clue!

Knock out the big green door-shaped green thing that's taller than the room due to LOLPERSPECTIVE?

485 people got it right so far...must be an easy one.

It looks like you can just ignore all the green shit, spin the wheel so the door isn't in the room, climb out on to the wheel, open it out into space where there isn't anything to block the door, and go in the door.

Although I finally figured out the intended solution.

According to Thunt's Twitter, he's going to make the next one MUCH harder since so many got this one right.

>>3351
>>he's going to TRY to make the next one much harder.

Fix'd.

>>3353
And he did...
>>Cutting the head off a zombie will kill it, you have to "kill" this door in the same way to unlock it. only then can you open it.

>>3565

... I really don't think I want any treasure that whoever crafted this challenge left behind.

>>3566
so far, only 21 out of 184 got it right...We have some professional puzzle solvers here, because I have no clue.

The number/letter combinations on the chains (look closely, they're there) spell out "dont step on the blood", but aside from that, I'm not seeing anything.

>>3587 same person

oh hey just noticed we have spoiler tags

The green stuff dripping from the locks matches up with some of the teeth on the keys. So I guess just use those ones, while avoiding the blood. Not that hard, I guess.

Hmm...so from left to right it's...
Key #5, #2, #7, and #9?
And here I was trying to associate the keys with binary numbers. Lots of Red Herrings in this one.

>>3587
Good eye. I had figured out Keys 5,2,7,9 went from left to right on the locks, but I definitely didn't see the code on the chain. I guess I was one of the wrong answers.

Saw this coming. Though I thought that it would be "Saves" as in "Keeps" rather than "Rescue"

>>3634

Hanging (rather precariously) above a fatal drop is NOT the best time to inform her of something that soul crushing.

>>3647
Dies knew it was a bad time, but she asked for it.