Thomas Jefferson is not being removed from textbooks. The change that was specified was in regards to other national revolutions outside the US.

People are acting like Thomas Jefferson is being erased entirely.

Lets be honest, this isn't exactly new.

Texas and California are the two big states that end up defining what virtually the rest of the country uses for textbooks, so it's somewhat hilarious to see either side whine about how the other side is "promoting their ideology" in either state during these kinds of meetings.

I will say though, I'm perplexed by some of these changes - and even more perplexed by the uproar they're causing. Just for a quick example.. When I was in high school, we never once even got up to the 1950's/Korean War timeframe, and we only just barely skimmed over WWI and WWII.

>Hence, “imperialism” as a characterization of America’s modern rise to world power is giving way to “expansionism,” and “capitalism” is being dropped in economic material, in favor of the more positive expression “free market.”

This makes me go LOLWUT, especially the bit about capitalism. There's nothing wrong with capitalism to begin with, other than some people trying to make it sound like a dirty word.

>(The new recommendations stress the need for favorable depictions of America’s economic superiority across the board.)

Maybe if you actually taught real history for a change you wouldn't need to give it a "favorable depiction" as history does that by itself.

>>14583
>>This makes me go LOLWUT, especially the bit about capitalism. There's nothing wrong with capitalism to begin with, other than some people trying to make it sound like a dirty word.

But remember, just don't imply or say that they're anything other than capitalists, because then you're being a fearmongering hick.

http://www.borndigital.com/founders.htm

That's all I got.

...

Oh yeah, I also have this nice, big article from AlterNet on the situation.

Texas Education Board Is Trying to Infuse Schoolbooks with Ultraconservative Ideology - http://bit.ly/9GEsEb

>>14589

Ah, "ultraconservative", nice use of scarewords on their part there.

>>14589

>With childlike glee, McLeroy flipped through the pages and explained what he saw as the gaping holes in Darwin's theory. "I don't care what the educational political lobby and their allies on the left say," he declared at one point. "Evolution is hooey." This bled into a rant about American history. "The secular humanists may argue that we are a secular nation," McLeroy said, jabbing his finger in the air for emphasis. "But we are a Christian nation founded on Christian principles. The way I evaluate history textbooks is first I see how they cover Christianity and Israel. Then I see how they treat Ronald Reagan -- he needs to get credit for saving the world from communism and for the good economy over the last twenty years because he lowered taxes."

If this is word for word what this man said during an interview, he has no business controlling what students are learning at school. Especially the evolution thing.

>>14592

Regardless, when you read the actual changes that were voted on and passed, it's really nothing to be concerned about. They're shifting focus to other things that happened during various periods in US history that were not given much, if any, attention in the past.

So be it. You can't cover everything in the history books. There's just too much information, but mixing it up once in a while isn't a bad thing. Higher education is where you get your down and dirty focused classes.

You know, the thing is, in every damn history class in public school, they taught us damn near the exact same thing every year. Basically, Columbus through Hiroshima. I don't know how many years those two things bookended the entire course.

Every time it expanded, it just expanded backwards. One history class got particularly ambitious and we did about a week on ancient Rome and a few days to a week on every period between that and, you betcha, Columbus.

Yes, Jefferson was awesome. No, I do not think kids need to spend as long learning about him personally as they do about the entire rise and fall of the origin of western culture.

>>14585
Well of course Ben Franklin wasn't a christian he loved whores too much.

>>14592
I find it especially hilarious that anyone can deny evolution anymore. Since, y'know, it's been scientifically proven. What, are they just that afraid to admit that God didn't make everything poof into existance out of nowhere all at once? Do they seriously not get that Darwin never said "a chimp gave birth to a human one day and that's how evolution works"?

And speaking of Columbus, schools really need to stop telling kids that the guy discovered America during a quest to prove the Earth is round.

With respect to imperialism, I have to say that I'm rather tired of hearing that American tribes pre-colonization were some kind of Rousseau-like utopian society.

Those peoples were divided into different ethnic groups. Of some groups, they held and traded in slaves. They committed genocide of each other. They committed war crimes such as rape, targeting of civilians, unwillingness to take prisoner, etc. They engaged in pedophila and canibalism.

To top it all off, they infected the Western world (and then the rest of the globe afterwards) with syphilis. Thanks a lot guys.

What happened in real, actual history was a matter of shades of gray conflict. A black/white view of good, innocent Indians verses evil white devils (pushed by the modern Democratic Party) is somewhat more accurate then the crap you'd see in a 1920s textbook (which noone pushes nowadays), but not much better.

Also, I have to say that spending a lot of time talking about hip hop as a landmark piece of American cultural development seems like a waste; when that time is spent NOT teaching them about, say, the Moon landings, the Cuban missile crisis, the SALT negotiations, the Oklahoma city bombing, etc.

While we're changing up the textbooks, can we add more about how badass some of our presidents were? Seriously. There should be an entire chapter on Teddy Roosevelt. He looks like Dr. fucking Robotnik, was a champion boxer when he was a kid with asthma, and most importantly got shot while giving a speech and acted like nothing fucking happened. When he finally died, it probably took five caskets just to bury his balls.

>>14599

And seriously, we spent like five seconds on the moon landing throughout my schooling career total. We landed on the fucking moon and it's like no one cares anymore. I was the only damn kid in 11th grade that could name all of the planets as well. What the hell, people?

>>14597
>Columbus, schools really need to stop telling kids that the guy discovered America during a quest to prove the Earth is round.
Second! They also need to say that people realized that the earth was round a long time before then.

>>14600
>There should be an entire chapter on Teddy Roosevelt. He looks like Dr. fucking Robotnik, was a champion boxer when he was a kid with asthma, and most importantly got shot while giving a speech and acted like nothing fucking happened. When he finally died, it probably took five caskets just to bury his balls.

He also had a fucking badger as a pet that lived and was allowed to roam around the white house freely. When it would "nip" at people's ankles, he thought it was cute.

An excellent book to read or get on audio is Mornings on Horseback by David McCullough. It deals primarily with TR's early life before he was a national figure.

>>14600
>>14605

FFFFFFFFF....I knew there was a reason why I always liked him. He also charged San Juan hill without horses too. He was all waiting for the horses, but then said fuck it and charged it on foot. Guy's a super badass. Man's my new hero now.

The Daily Show just did a great segment on this.

>>14608

http://www.cracked.com/funny-126-teddy-roosevelt/

http://www.cracked.com/article_15895_the-5-most-badass-presidents-all-time.html

guess who's number one on the badass list?

>>14597

I really don't think they teach it that way anymore. There is a case to be made for giving Columbus his due credit for being the first western explorer to establish permanent settlements and attempt to colonize the region.

The actual first discovery of the continent is a moot point since people were already there.

Ultimately I prefer crediting Columbus with selling the idea of colonizing the New World because it would be profitable. Indeed it was Columbus...indeed it was.

Sadly, you just can't cover everything, especially when your classes are only 45 minutes long and most of that time is spent getting the damn kids in their seats and attentive.

>>14610

FUCK YEAR!

That was awesome. I swear Hollywood better be reading this. We so need some crazy, manly and adrenalin-pumping movie and/or jame of the 5 of them together and kicking serious ass 300 style or some shit. Throw in some Lincoln and I smell blockbuster.

If they do a game, each President would get some special move that makes them even more bad-ass (is that even possible!?) Like Washington going all Hulk, Jackson going all bat-shit insane with a cane and gun, and Roosevelt killing people with his "bear" hands.

>>14614
I think I'm gonna write a really stupid fake-script for the trailer.

It will involve Abraham Lincoln riding a Harley-Davidson, Nazi Aliens, and Time-Travel.

>>14614

You sir would win many internets if you. Throw in some Ninja Cyborg Pirate Jesus (not necessarily all in one) and it would be epic.

Okay, I'll admit: I think American education in regards to the social studies is fucked, fucked, fucked. And I currently live in Texas, so doubly so.

And I really DO think the problems run deeper than just Texas, by FAR. The ONLY schools whose fucking history programs matter are the few Classical schools that start with the dawn of history and teach the ancients (Mesopotamia & Egypt, Greco-Roman Classical civilization, China, etc.).

Guess how education worked in ancient societies from Sumer to Egypt to Hatti to China to Rome? Big emphasis on fucking MATH, a particular SCIENCE OR RIGOROUS DISCIPLE (astronomy for the Babylonians, Panini's Classical Sanskrit for India, physics for the Greeks, etc.) and THE FUCKING ANCIENT HISTORY AND LITERATURE OF THAT CULTURE.

China had the longest-lasting continuous culture in world history and their entrance exams for distinguished government service were about HISTORY AND POETRY, not the fucking "jump through the hoops" shit our modern education has (and that fucking includes Western Europe, I am fucking sick of Western Europe's education systems).

The fact this overhaul is debating the nuances of SHIT NO ONE WILL BE STUDYING IN FIVE HUNDRED YEARS EVEN THOUGH EVERYONE WILL STILL FUCKING KNOW HAMMURABI, RAMSES THE GREAT, ARISTOTLE, LAO TZU, THE PUNIC WARS, HOMER, ECCLESIASTES is FUCKING MIND-BOGGLING.

I've taught for private education, and some of my public-minded friends are trying to get me to teach in public school instead of going back to university for a higher degree. But I've taught history, literature, and economics in a PRIVATE school and that shit is fucked up there. If I get a degree in math, I'll fucking teach math. But I can't imagine teaching social studies or science in an American school. Fuck.

But this takes the cake:

"Jefferson, a deist who helped pioneer the legal theory of the separation of church and state, is not a model founder in the board’s judgment. Among the intellectual forerunners to be highlighted in Jefferson’s place: medieval Catholic philosopher St. Thomas Aquinas, Puritan theologian John Calvin and conservative British law scholar William Blackstone. Heavy emphasis is also to be placed on the founding fathers having been guided by strict Christian beliefs."

Look, I'd be shocked if anyone on these boards has read any Aquinas or Calvin (you don't have to be religious to appreciate your heritage) and you all seem like smart folks. And I'd be fucking ecstatic to know that Texan teens are learning about those influential thinkers.

But taking out Jefferson? The only Founding Father that fucking matters? NO ONE NEEDS TO KNOW BLACKSTONE YOU IDIOTS

TEXAS I HATE YOU BUT YOUR WOMAN AND YOUR BEER SUSTAIN MY SOUL

Oh man I just had a cigarette. That was like prom. I'd totally deserve a ban for treating USE like Hugbox. I apologize. But man, that felt good.

As an addendum, the Classical schools in Texas are predominantly conservative Christian, so that's a whole other headache. I should move to Colorado.

>...Jefferson... The only Founding Father that fucking matters

>>14591
Yeah, I'm not sure whether I care about this or not (other than it bugs me on principle that a couple of generally radical states have so much influence on what the whole country teaches), but I lol'd at the use of "ultraconservative". Get stuck learning U.S. history from an A Beka textbook and then come back and try to tell me any public school teaches an "ultraconservative" anything.

Also, not to derail this any further, but I am totally on board with the badass presidents movie idea.

>>14597
Do they really teach that in schools? If America's schoolteachers are that stupid we have much bigger things to worry about than Texas's opinions on Jefferson OR Darwin.

>>14647
I was referring to the Columbus thing btw

I don't care if it's left-wing or right wing... Keep the lean out of the textbooks. Facts in, opinions (from either side) out. For example, a section describing how Congress works has no reason for getting into which political side is "right". That's not germane to learning about the mechanics of government.

>>14636
John Calvin? The guy who pushed the idea that both "you can be saved by doing good works in God's name" and "you can be saved by accepting Jesus" are both wrong, and that you're born - predestined by Gods - to be saved or damned? Wow. I haven't read much Calvin, but I know I'd rather not have him as a model in the textbooks. And I AM Christian. Jefferson WAS, as far as I know, guided by his Christian beliefs... but, apparently, because he wasn't Conservative enough, he's not a good role model. Near as I see it, this is the Schafly shit: If it isn't openly, directly and unabashedly far-right, it's automatically far-left wackjob socialist blah blah blah... I have family in Texas. They're Christian. They'd be upset at this.

And the same sorts of guys are doing a revised Bible that edits out the "large amount" of "liberal bias" that's been put in. (Look, the Bible is FULL of bias - of the translators, of those who funded the translators, of the Church, and of fallible human mind in general) They're suggesting such things as the 'important' inclusion of the modern-day concept of Hell. Hell as we think of it today isn't mentioned in ANY known version of the Bible. Are we to believe, then, that King James for example was a left-wing guy who intentionally left it out?

These guys all need a good whack with a clue-by-four.

Found what could be considered good news on this front. Texas is considering going all-digital with their textbooks, meaning whatever specialized curriculum they go with might not have any effect on the country's printed material anyway:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/education/stories/041910dnmetonlinetexts.43b3e05.html

>>14785

Oh what the FUCK?

>>14785

Whether or not Calvin was right doesn't matter. It's his influence that matters from a historical perspective.